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Post by polarbear on Dec 14, 2013 12:13:45 GMT -5
We stay to max out our pensions - most of them are way beyond that, some even tier 1. They stay because of grand illusions of being the top guy - they are afraid and the good ones have already left. I totally disagree. I work with 2 guys who have 30 years on. Both divorced and they can't leave. Get by on $80g (1/2)? Or what? Leave their kids and grandkids behind? You're right - Guys do stay for various reasons - some even stay because they love the job. I'm just trying to point out that there are not alot of great ones left on the top of this job. 86 ponted out that some of them left a few years ago because they said "No" to tearing this job apart. The ones that stayed (not all), especally Krumpter are the yes men to the Politicians running this job and are responsible for tearing it to pieces.
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Post by 1090cop on Dec 14, 2013 12:24:29 GMT -5
Krumpter wants a city guy as top dog so he can continue to destroy this job and he can continue to blame it on the city guy.
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Post by unregistered5150 on Dec 14, 2013 15:50:32 GMT -5
Am I missing the obvious thing here? Dale was an outside guy and now Mangano wants another outside guy. He should learn from this incident with Dale, that outside guys get caught up in BS too.
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Post by opie on Dec 14, 2013 17:42:22 GMT -5
It will be an outside guy with ties to some republican club in nassau county. Does Al Damato have any family on the city job?
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Post by smallville on Dec 14, 2013 19:48:16 GMT -5
I totally disagree. I work with 2 guys who have 30 years on. Both divorced and they can't leave. Get by on $80g (1/2)? Or what? Leave their kids and grandkids behind? You're right - Guys do stay for various reasons - some even stay because they love the job. I'm just trying to point out that there are not alot of great ones left on the top of this job. 86 ponted out that some of them left a few years ago because they said "No" to tearing this job apart. The ones that stayed (not all), especally Krumpter are the yes men to the Politicians running this job and are responsible for tearing it to pieces. Fair enough. There are a few sell out mother- fvckers. Fvck them. Don't ever disrespect someone who stays on this job to take care of their family. There is nothing BUT family.
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Post by coots on Dec 15, 2013 15:34:34 GMT -5
Nassau's Next Top Cop Faces a Challenge
The fight to dole out tougher discipline and increase accountability in the Nassau police ranks will be one of the biggest challenges facing whoever succeeds ousted Commissioner Thomas Dale, law enforcement sources say.
Taking the reins in 2012 in the wake of several police scandals, Dale promised to reassert the authority of the commissioner and other top officials to discipline rogue cops.
County legislators in May 2012 broadened his authority to impose discipline by firing bad employees, rather than have police trials internal hearings to determine what happens to cops who break the rules -- go to a mediator.
But Dale's efforts at reform faced significant resistance from the Police Benevolent Association, which launched a legal challenge to the commissioner's expanded powers.
When Dale resigned suddenly Thursday over his role in the arrest of a witness in a politically charged case, the powers granted him by lawmakers had remained largely unused, the sources said.
"Dale was brought in to clean things up and get tough on cops who crossed certain lines," said one police official. "But with the way he went out, whatever movement there was toward reform looks like it might be dead. He wasn't around long enough to impact the culture."
Early in his 23-month tenure, Dale said he believed Nassau's police unions had too much influence on how the department handled disciplinary actions. With the support of County Executive Edward Mangano and lawmakers, he fought for the right to fire cops accused of serious wrongdoing. Under previous commissioners, employees accused of misconduct usually managed to keep their jobs.
"Dale worked under a lot of pressure. He took a lot on, and he took on a lot of people," Mangano said Friday. "He may be gone, but the effort to instill discipline will continue."
Mangano called Dale a "disciplinarian" and promised that "the next commissioner will be a disciplinarian, too."
In its legal challenge filed in September 2012, the PBA claims the legislature's action to broaden Dale's authority was a violation of its contract, which requires disciplinary disputes to be settled by an independent arbitrator.
So far, three judges in a row have recused themselves from the case. It has recently been assigned to a fourth judge, state Supreme Court Justice Anthony Parga.
The police official said Dale's authority was expected to face a crucial test in the case of Officer Anthony DiLeonardo, who internal affairs investigators found had shot and beat an unarmed taxi driver without justification in Huntington Station in 2011.
Dale had expressed his desire to fire DiLeonardo, the official said. But nearly three years after the shooting, the officer remains on the force. He was paid $110,316 in 2012, the year after the shooting, after making just over $118,000 in each of the previous two years, records show.
Dale "was in a power struggle [with the PBA] and he lost," the official said.
Dale did not return calls seeking comment.
Hempstead attorney Frederick Brewington said prospects for increased accountability and discipline within the department's rank-and-file are dim. He successfully sued the county for more than $7 million on grounds that police failed to protect Jo'Anna Bird, who was killed by an ex-boyfriend in 2009.
Nassau County and Bird's family issued a joint statement after the settlement citing a "breakdown in the system." An internal investigation found that officers failed to investigate domestic violence calls by Bird before she was killed.
"Until the department comes clean on issues that plague it within, there's never going to be real systematic change," Brewington said of the police department. "There's no civilian complaint review board, and there's no outside entity making sure people are held accountable. I hope the next permanent commissioner is someone who is not afraid of accountability."
Mangano lured Dale, an Oyster Bay Town resident and protege of outgoing New York City Police Commissioner Ray Kelly, away from his job as NYPD chief of personnel. One of only eight three-star chiefs in the NYPD at the time, the Brooklyn-born Dale joined the NYPD in 1970 as a plainclothes officer and served in the patrol and detective divisions, organized-crime control and on the terrorist task force.
From 2003 to 2010, he commanded Patrol Borough Queens South, supervising eight precincts during a time when major crime declined 17 percent. He also developed the security plan for the 2004 Republican National Convention in New York City and orchestrated initial patrol operations on Sept. 11, 2001, when he was one of the first senior law enforcement officials on the scene.
In Nassau, Dale faced an uphill climb when it came to wielding more power in police disciplinary matters.
After the legislature's vote granting Dale additional authority, he said he had the power to discipline department employees rather than have police trials go to a mediator.
But James Carver, who heads the PBA, said then that if Dale tried to put an officer on "trial" within the department, the union would immediately seek a temporary restraining order.
For several years, such trials have been decided by independent mediators, and Carver battled Dale to ensure that is how things would stay, the police official said.
"This whole matter remained unsettled as of the day Dale quit," the source said.
Carver said Friday his union had its differences with Dale, but "I don't see his resignation as a victory for us. Anything that puts a blemish on the department isn't a victory."
Nassau Legis. Dave Denenberg (D-Merrick) has called for hearings into several police department issues, including employee discipline.
"In light of the high-profile disciplinary matters of the last two years, it certainly seems appropriate that the Legislature conduct a hearing as to the disciplinary process, findings and whether the legislative changes pushed by the administration and Commissioner Dale resulted in benefits to the county, the department and/or otherwise," Denenberg wrote in a Dec. 9 letter to Republican legislative leaders.
Several current and former employees of the police department speaking on condition of anonymity because they are not authorized to talk to the press said the resistance Dale faced from the PBA and others left him unable to implement wide-ranging changes.
"He couldn't change the culture of the department because a lot of people didn't want the culture to change," said a second police source. "Ultimately, he was sucked in by that culture, which led to his downfall."
Carver said the PBA merely wants fair treatment from the next police commissioner.
"This isn't about saying no one should be disciplined at all," Carver said. "It's about fairness and the punishment fitting the crime. That's all we're asking for."
Is Mangano kidding...The "Rogue" cop is his own commissioner. He's the one who gave the order to make the arrest of Randy Rice.
Another Mangano hack...Investigate the COP, DA Rice and Mangano on this issue.
Come on Carver get on top of this and call for an investigation of the above named conspirators ... stop being a wishy washy fence sitter for once.
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Post by rabbit on Dec 15, 2013 16:57:42 GMT -5
"Is Mangano kidding...The "Rogue" cop is his own commissioner. He's the one who gave the order to make the arrest of Randy Rice. "
If you think Dale did this of his own volition I have a bridge I can sell you, real cheap.
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Post by bsoblack on Dec 15, 2013 18:18:41 GMT -5
Dale would not touch this without seeking Mangano's clearance. Am very surprised he was not smart enough to see the negative ramifications. He was used as a puppet. Ruined some careers. For those who remember, how do you think Daniel Guido would have handled this? Nassau County executives don't want a police commissioner like Daniel Guido. They want puppets. The police department has never been influenced/managed by the county executives office as it is now since Guido.
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Post by overthecap on Dec 15, 2013 20:58:24 GMT -5
The reward must have outweighed the risk.
But what was it and who was offering it?
In light of the NCPD's ex- COP and Chief getting involved outside of the scope of the norm, and adding to that, the most recent SCPD Burke saga, he being inappropriately involved in the larceny investigation of his own property, one must wonder what was the mindset of these men.
Did they not think that Randy would complain.
What was the plan if questioned...................retire?
It is almost surreal that these men thought and acted as they did given the current climate of malfeasance and police investigations pending relative to official misconduct.
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Post by onthejob on Dec 15, 2013 21:24:57 GMT -5
I can see either Dale or a family member given a job in the Town of Oyster Bay or the county. Dale should take a look at Belisi before he sells his soul to these guys. He looks like hell these days. Was it worth it?
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Post by mr1706 on Dec 16, 2013 17:29:24 GMT -5
len levitt gosip, nassau mentioned a couple times fyi The Good Soldier Guess who wants to return to the NYPD?
Maybe as Bill Bratton's chief of staff?
It's Joe Esposito, the recently retired Chief of Department, who many consider the glue that held the department together for the past 12 years under Ray Kelly.
As he did with just about all his top chiefs, Kelly disdained Espo and denuded him of power. He undercut him and dealt with his underlings. He ended the Chief of Department's traditional role of promoting and transferring officers, from whence much of his power is derived.
Kelly also prevented Espo from speaking to the media. When he retired earlier this year, Kelly put an exclamation point on his feelings about him by removing that stricture for his successor, Phil Banks -- whom Kelly appeared to be promoting for police commissioner.
Kelly also had Espo do his dirty work at the Stop and Frisk Trial - even though Espo was retired -- because Kelly had refused to be deposed so he wouldn't have to testify.
Good soldier that he was, Espo did as ordered and defended Stop and Frisk.
But his testimony may make it politically problematic for Bratton to take Espo back. The problem for Bratton is he needs someone like Espo, who knows the joint and whom Bratton trusts.
Remember that Bratton has been away from Police Plaza for two decades.
Remember, too, that Kelly will be sniping from the sidelines, seeking to undermine him.
So toxic was the atmosphere towards Bratton created by Kelly that when Bratton returned in 2010 to attend a retirement luncheon for First Deputy George Grasso, many top chiefs -- even those who had worked for him -- hesitated to sit down at the same table with Bratton and his wife Rikki Klieman. Mostly they sat alone.
Although Kelly didn't attend the luncheon [possibly because he knew Bratton was coming], his top aide, Paul Browne, was there to keep an eye out [although Browne denied he was taking attendance notes.]
As for Espo, people outside the police department don't always appreciate that most top cops are not heroes but bureaucrats -- trained less to think independently than to follow orders and obey the commands of the commissioner, whoever he is.
Now those commands will come from Bratton, who has vowed to reform Stop and Frisk.
Bratton's commands will come from Mayor Bill de Blasio, who was elected largely by making those same vows.
NASSAU MERRY-GO-ROUND. Let's be clear. Thomas Dale is not Bernie Kerik.
Dale, a 40-year NYPD veteran and for the past two years the Nassau County Police Commissioner before resigning in disgrace last week, is not going to jail.
Nor has he been charged with a crime.
But like Kerik, who parlayed a stint as the driver for Mayor Rudy Giuliani into becoming the NYPD's 40th police commissioner before ending up in federal prison on conspiracy and tax fraud charges, Dale seems expert at ingratiating himself with his benefactors.
He was forced to resign after he ordered a politically-related arrest that reveals how closely Republican politics and the police are entwined on Long Island -- and how the NYPD plays a tangential role.
Specifically, Dale had a political opponent of his boss, the Republican Nassau County Executive Edward Mangano, pulled off a public bus for a misdemeanor offense.
Dale ordered the arrest at the behest of Gary Melius, the man who had recommended him to Mangano as police commissioner.
Melius is a Long Island developer with longtime ties to the Nassau Republican party and to the NYPD.
Let's begin with this: Nassau County police officers are among the highest paid in the country. Average salaries for the 2500-member force. are well over $100,000.
This is the result of herculean efforts begun in the 1970s by a half-mad police union attorney named Richie Hartman. Hartman later became the attorney for the New York City's police union, although he didn't do as well for them. Like Kerik, he ended up in federal prison.
A second point: Nassau County police officials have a lot of time on their hands to play politics since Nassau has one of the country's lowest crime rates.
In 1982, five black guys from the Brownsville section of Brooklyn stole a Cadillac, drove out to Long Island, broke into a Plainview house-party, raped the women and robbed the guests, then continued their rape and robbery spree at a Westbury diner. The crimes were so horrendous that Newsday devoted a full year to cataloguing every crime on Long Island, then presented its findings in a seemingly never-ending series the following year.
This reporter had just opened New York Newsday's bureau at Police Plaza and contributed a New York story. The story was about Brownsville. It turned out there was more crime in Brownsville in a month than in all of Long Island for the past ten years.
Since 2002, Nassau County has twice turned to the NYPD for its police commissioner. In 2002, the county hired the NYPD's Chief of Personnel James Lawrence. In 2012, Mangano hired Dale. NYPD Confidential first ran across Dale in 2010 when as an assistant chief in Queens, he allowed a well-connected captain in the 113th precinct to continue his private law practice after the Internal Affairs Bureau leveled disciplinary charges that he had engaged in off-duty employment without permission and conducted his law practice while he claimed to be on duty.
Dale allowed him to change his 8-4 day tour to 4 to midnights so he could continue practicing law during the day. [See NYPD Confidential, Aug. 16 and Sept 6, 2010.]
It turned out that Dale was a friend of the captain's daddy, a retired big shot Highway cop who knew a lot important people. Police sources say that when Dale retired, the big shot Highway cop helped arrange Dale's "walkout" and had a car ready to whisk him away.
It also turned out that Dale was a friend of Melius, who recommended him to Mangano.
Melius also owns a catering hall out in Suffolk County called the Oheka Castle, where law enforcement officials party and drink at reduced rates, law enforcement sources say. He did not return a call from this reporter.
The U.S. Secret Service, which faced a scandal over its agents consorting with prostitutes in South America, is but one law enforcement agency whose officers party there, NYPD sources say.
But they are not alone. A recently retired three-star NYPD chief had his retirement party there. A recently retired official in the office of Nassau County District Attorney Kathleen Rice -- who conducted the investigation into politically connected arrest -- had his daughter's wedding there, those sources say.
It was Melius' phone call to Dale, led to Dale's resignation.
In a convoluted twist of Nassau County politics, Melius had donated $23,000 to the campaign of Freeport Democrat Andrew Hardwick to draw votes away from Mangano's Democratic opponent Thomas Suozzi.
When someone named Randy White claimed in a civil proceeding that Hardwick had improperly paid him for signatures to place Hardwick's name on the ballot, Melius called Dale, saying the Hardwick campaign was prepared to file a perjury charge against White.
At Dale's order, Chief of Detectives John Capece conducted an investigation into the perjury complaint. This resulted in the discovery of an outstanding warrant for Hardwick's failure to a pay a $250 fine as a result of a misdemeanor conviction. Two detectives and sergeant then pulled White off a public express bus and arrested him.
Rice, a Democrat and the county's first female district attorney, wrote in a letter to Mangano that Dale's decision to involve himself was not a crime but indicated "politically motivated policing within the Nassau police department."
According to law enforcement sources, Mangano then ordered Dale to fire Chief of Detectives Capece. When Dale refused, saying Capece was merely following orders, Mangano fired Dale. Capece then retired.
Rice's letter appeared to absolve Mangano. "Our investigation has discovered nothing to suggest that you or members of your administration were involved in the case against Mr. White," she wrote.
Long Island Democrats don't believe that and have asked the feds in the Eastern District to investigate.
Mangano, meanwhile, announced that Dale would be succeeded by Victor Politi, the current Deputy Country Executive for Public Safety. Politi, a licensed medical doctor, is also a former NYPD emergency service cop.
His brother Gary was an NYPD sergeant cop who served on the security detail of former commissioner Howard Safir until his sudden and untimely death in 1999.
Mangano also announced that Politi's appointment was temporary and that he would seek a permanent successor from outside Nassau County.
About 30 seconds later, a top NYPD chief, apparently nervous about his future under newly appointed Bill Bratton, put in his application for the Nassau County job.
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Post by 1090cop on Dec 16, 2013 18:09:07 GMT -5
Espo may be one of the few good men left on that job. I wish him the best.
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Post by mr1706 on Dec 16, 2013 20:08:22 GMT -5
Espo may be one of the few good men left on that job. I wish him the best. yep, he aged out and retired in march this year.
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Post by ncpdretired on Dec 17, 2013 8:26:07 GMT -5
Richie Hartman. Now there's a name that I first heard back in the early 60's when he ran CTC on County Seat Drive, Second Floor. I wondered what happened to him after he left Nassau .Federal Prision you say. What the heck did he do? Just a quick flash in this old memory of mine.
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Post by overthecap on Dec 17, 2013 8:45:47 GMT -5
George, get some coffee.........alot, and read this. It would make a nice book. Lengthy but worth it. www.russbaker.com/archives/Village%20Voice%20-%20The%20Rogue%20Police%20Union.htmHere's a blurb; THE CARUSO HARTMAN ERA ushered in some new faces at the PBA. One figure with a troubled past was Gary Melius. As a young thug, he'd met Hartman and gone on to work his way into the union's circle of friends. In 1963, the teenaged Melius and three friends had offered a ride to a young man who had been waiting for a bus, then choked him and robbed him of $40. The following year, Melius was convicted of malicious mischief -- six months, suspended sentence. In 1971, he and James C. Mileo, a 40-year-old Nassau County patrolman, were arrested in an attempted $1000 shakedown of a narcotics courier, a young woman caught with a pound of heroin in her car. She said she didn't have the money, so the patrolman ordered her to go get it. When she returned, Melius, who worked as a general contractor, was there to receive it. Perhaps the scheme would have been successful if the woman had not been an undercover police officer. When Melius was arrested after driving off with the money, attorney Richard Hartman represented him. He had Melius plea bargain to third degree grand larceny, and to the great relief of the young builder, Hartman turned a potential 15-year sentence into three years probation and a $1000 fine. "[Hartman] always inferred he was a connected guy," Melius said in a Voice interview. Melius was later arrested for his role in a "steal to order" business that delivered hot tractor trailers and construction equipment on request. The ringleader was a young woman connected with organized crime figures. Melius was charged with grand larceny, and Hartman again got the charge reduced to a misdemeanor and probation. Subsequently, Melius moved the office of his small construction company into the ground floor of Hartman's dumpy two story building at 300 Old Country Road in Mineola; Hartman's law firm occupied the upstairs. Melius began chumming around with the attorney and before long was both a personal aide and social pal. "I just hung out with him," Melius said. "We went to the movies. We went to the racetrack, to Roosevelt, to Nathan's." By 1975, the two had become such fast friends that Hartman sold 300 Old Country Road to Melius for $250,000. Melius said he paid the entire sum two years later. Subsequently, Melius demolished the building and constructed a sleek three story professional office condominium complex, which he sold for a huge profit. In 1979, law enforcement officials again took an Interest in Melius. This time, investigators for the Manhattan D.A.'s office came upon his name while following checks written by loan shark Teddy Moss, operating from the garment district. One such check, for $25,000, had gone to Gary Melius When the $25,000 check surfaced, investigators summoned Melius to their offices. "Once he saw that check he literally took off." one investigator said. "He fled out the door." Ten minutes later, Richard Hartman called the investigator to quiz him as to what he wanted with his friend. Melius, who does not recall the meeting in the D.A.'s office, but does remember a phone call, said he told the investigator that the money from Moss was a loan. The loan shark was a familiar figure: back in the '60s, Moss had been a principal prosecution witness in the Crazy Joey Gallo trial. He'd worn a wire and gotten protection from the D.A. because Gallo wanted to kill him. But by this time, Moss's days of cooperation with law enforcement officials seemed long over. Prosecutors suspected Moss's check to Melius was a means of laundering illicit profits. And though Moss pled guilty to criminal usury (charging 69 per cent interest) and paid a $45,000 fine in 1980, an investigator on the case feels it was not Moss's idea: "Somebody told him, `You better plead or this thing is going blow up in people's faces."' Indeed, Melius was featured on Lifestyles of the Rich and Famous in 1986 as the owner of an estate in Cold Spring Hills, Long Island, a 120,000-square-foot palace, the second largest private residence in America. Formerly known as the Otto Kahn Castle (or Oheka), it had been built in 1917. Melius purchased it in 1984, fixed it up, and sold it in 1988 for $22 million to a Japanese businessman who insisted on a no-publicity clause. Today, Melius has sizable developments throughout Long Island. Of his earlier activities, including his association with Hartman and the PBA, the 49 year old Melius has regrets: "I was trying to hang out with what I thought were the good guys lawyers, law enforcement. I would have done better with the bad guys."
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