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Post by lost on Sept 6, 2013 23:16:33 GMT -5
There's more to life than money. And taking a zero in 16 like the above poster referenced is ridiculous if "it's all about the money"
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zzzz
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Post by zzzz on Sept 6, 2013 23:39:53 GMT -5
LOST please don't take offense but I'm not rationalizing anything. I read the "deal" in its entirety and the fact of the matter is we aren't losing anything monetarily. I'm not the "guy" that is saying sign me up for anything. In my mind before I read the deal I was ready to vote "NO" on it. I was thinking back pay/retro would be paid at retirement. Overtime would be paid at straight time for like 100 or so hours. Quarter days back in effect. 0% increases. Another pay lag. Etc etc etc. After I read the deal I was a little surprised that "in my opinion" it wasn't that bad. To me healthcare was very important so with obamacare beginning shortly I was pleasantly surprised we would be locked in until 2021. We are getting raises from 2013-2017. NO Zero's. plus all our back pay paid BEFORE retirement. Yes I agree vacation is taking a hit but if you have enough seniority you'll still have off. Summer months whether it be 1 or 2 personal days... They were all used anyway. Guys do mutuals, short for shorts etc to take off anyway.... Civilianization of 50 spots? Ok that sux but again so the crusty time office/ clerk will retire or lug a car. We are not Suffolk County and this county is the worst managed county in the state. In this county both party's Dems and Repub's CANNOT and DO NOT work together so to rely are them to pay us after a judgement is insane. They haven't paid the homeowners for back tax assessment victories yet. Plus the lawsuit was for " 1 " year at a time. These decisions take forever to decide and I'm sorry but if I'm not giving back to hrs, quarter days, pay lags etc etc AND getting healthcare locked until friggin 2021.... I'm signing up now..... PLUS a clause for NIFA that states no freezes until 2018? I don't know what world your living in....but this is Nassau County and in this economy TODAY I feel it's not bad of an agreement to sign..... You'll get the envelope in the mail vote how you feel. Of course I'd like It all in a lawsuit win but even if we won it would be a very very long time to see any money.... And the county can just say we can't pay.... Then hence more givebacks.
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Post by redstone14 on Sept 7, 2013 0:58:35 GMT -5
Healthcare is no cost to dec 31 2020. That's HUGE guys. That in my opinion is very very important these days. That is important. But, there is a loophole for the County. With Obamacare looming, there's the possibility of the County dropping healthcare for all employees and paying a much cheaper Obamacare fine long before 2020. Then we'll be visiting clinics in Walmart and getting the very best Third World medical care the government can provide.
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Post by tensevencop on Sept 7, 2013 1:00:44 GMT -5
Arent losing any money? We are losing the first six months of raises the next three years because we don't get those raises until july now. And as previously stated we are taking a zero in 2016. You guys are crazy giving up all this when we will prevail in court very shortly. We are giving up too much for what is contractually owed to us already.
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zzzz
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Post by zzzz on Sept 7, 2013 7:30:59 GMT -5
As far as there being a chance Obamacare becomes our plan...... The " deal" specifically states EMPIRE PLAN until Dec 31, 2020. That's not a loophole if its contractually signed by all party's. it did leave the door open for new hire's to have an option for a healthcare plan that 85% value to empire. ( so maybe new hires wouldn't have to pay 15%). Also I do agree with Redstone about raises happening in July now.... That kinda sux but again once this deal is approved by all party's we'll start being paid FINALLY and July won't feel so far away once we start being payed. Remember the appeal is "1" year at a time and who the hell knows how long after this first decision is made when will we be paid for that? Also then how much longer after that to render the "2nd" decision then "3rd" AND then get our money? Also after that then we'd have to negotiate again for another contract and who knows what we'd give up then. Hey look I'm no cheerleader for the PBA here. Im just trying to rationalize this "deal" compared to the unknown of the courts. Also take into consideration Nassau's ability to pay and NIFA. Yes that's right I'm in steps and I'd like to start being paid finally. I can't afford the unknown of BS court decisions anymore. Maybe if I had $1000 more per check like I'm supposed too I'd say wait wait wait but it's time finally to get paid. AND in my opinion we aren't giving up that much.
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Post by lost on Sept 7, 2013 7:52:39 GMT -5
This deal gives nearly everything to get what we already negotiated for. Is this to he the status quo going forward? Negotiate twice for everything?
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zzzz
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Post by zzzz on Sept 7, 2013 7:56:33 GMT -5
2013 " raise" in this agreement has past ( July) so upon approval we will get that raise with 2011 retro by jan ( 3 1/2 months away) ..... Also the 2016 and 2017 raises are BS 1%'s.... So the dinosaurs on this job will feel how guys in steps were living lol
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Post by opie on Sept 7, 2013 8:24:01 GMT -5
This deal gives nearly everything to get what we already negotiated for. Is this to he the status quo going forward? Negotiate twice for everything? I'm in the same boat as you lost. Should have hit top pay 2 years ago and I'm receiving no longevity. They owe me a fortune but everything we negotiated for in the past is dead and done. We all have families to feed, mortgage payments, and college/retirements to fund. The $25,000 jump in pay is huge. I'm just as pissed off as you but we are in different times. Our county and our country are bankrupt and NIFA is here. We have steady work, full health benefits, pension, and an amazing chart working half what a city or Suffolk cop works. Yes there will be less src but you will make more on the src and eot you do.
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regrets
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Post by regrets on Sept 7, 2013 10:03:21 GMT -5
It's in newsday online now...everyone is entitled to their opinion but I think it would be foolish for members to reject this deal. But again, i think it's a moot point bc nifa will most likely reject it...and as far as ppl complaining bout holidays & uniform- u get that back when u retire. So walking in the door at $135k without anything else... Yes Ot will be down but there will always be Ot esp in the summer. Guys seem to forget about the economic climate we are in. And if u pay any attention to financial experts, they are predicting another crash worse than the housing market crash soon. I'm surprised guys would complain but that's the nature of cops I guess. I pray to God this goes through!!!!
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Post by crates on Sept 7, 2013 10:04:54 GMT -5
Deal isn't that great. The decision will properly come down in a month or two. If we win and it then thats it. The other lawsuits will be a lock for us. This deal has us giving back again and only getting what we are deserved. Dint think foe a second that if we sign this deal the county isn't going to come back to us asking for more before the end if the contract. They have proven time and time again they can't be trusted.
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regrets
Participating Member
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Post by regrets on Sept 7, 2013 10:19:01 GMT -5
Crates, what happens if we lose the lawsuit?
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Post by tensevencop on Sept 7, 2013 10:39:35 GMT -5
We already won the lawsuit..Are you people forgetting that? To think this is going to get overturned is almost laughable. My whole arguement is why not wait for the decesion? The worst that can happen and I doubt would happen is that they say lets send this to state court. If that happprns, THEN makes this deal. We don't lose any leverage from that and the deal would make sense more instead of having to wait potentially a year longer. So again my question is why does this deal need to be done NOW?
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Post by lost on Sept 7, 2013 11:17:28 GMT -5
We already won the lawsuit..Are you people forgetting that? To think this is going to get overturned is almost laughable. My whole arguement is why not wait for the decesion? The worst that can happen and I doubt would happen is that they say lets send this to state court. If that happprns, THEN makes this deal. We don't lose any leverage from that and the deal would make sense more instead of having to wait potentially a year longer. So again my question is why does this deal need to be done NOW? Exactly; the county is in a huge bind as they really need to hire. They can't get anyone at 34K frozen, we're already seeing that. Who ever heard of people no showing up to swear in before? We could wait for the lawsuit and then let the county make a choice. We win, we get our money, and the county might come running for a deal to lessen the blow. We lose (state court), they still need to hire and will have a very difficult time in doing so, plus the overtime will still be through the roof, and retirements will be running out the door; the county will still come looking to deal. We have the upper hand here in my opinion, and we are wasting it.
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Post by watertight on Sept 7, 2013 11:35:16 GMT -5
+1, deal after decision, we go back to state we deal, we win....f em We already won the lawsuit..Are you people forgetting that? To think this is going to get overturned is almost laughable. My whole arguement is why not wait for the decesion? The worst that can happen and I doubt would happen is that they say lets send this to state court. If that happprns, THEN makes this deal. We don't lose any leverage from that and the deal would make sense more instead of having to wait potentially a year longer. So again my question is why does this deal need to be done NOW? Exactly; the county is in a huge bind as they really need to hire. They can't get anyone at 34K frozen, we're already seeing that. Who ever heard of people no showing up to swear in before? We could wait for the lawsuit and then let the county make a choice. We win, we get our money, and the county might come running for a deal to lessen the blow. We lose (state court), they still need to hire and will have a very difficult time in doing so, plus the overtime will still be through the roof, and retirements will be running out the door; the county will still come looking to deal. We have the upper hand here in my opinion, and we are wasting it.
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zzzz
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Post by zzzz on Sept 7, 2013 11:42:42 GMT -5
Yes I agree, it would be nice to wait for the courts..... But again it's a gamble. We won on a technicality not on arguments. If it goes to state court then discovery happens all over again and it's another 2 years for year "1" lawsuit. This deal certainly isn't perfect I agree but it's not a perfect climate we are in. But it's here in front of us right now for the taking( if we want it). Ask guys in the 1st pct if they want anymore OT. OT will still be around for years to come because even if they hire 500 new guys, retirees will still out weigh the new hires therefore leaving OT available. So to show up and turn the key in the car and make 130000 isn't bad. Also again, HEALTHCARE Will be LOCKED IN for 7 more years and most likely continue to be after that for guys on this existing tier
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