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Post by ftnyrs on Jan 14, 2014 16:26:08 GMT -5
The sad part about the federal lawsuit is that Judge Wexler could be deceased by the time he gets it back in his lap, he's no spring chicken
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jp2765
Participating Member
Posts: 27
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Post by jp2765 on Jan 14, 2014 16:29:17 GMT -5
Im just as upset as you guys but please correct me if Im wrong in 2 years Tier 2 runs out anyway and automatically switches to Tier 6. Im not 100% on this but someone with some knowledge please correct me or certify the statment. Correct. "Most Tier 6 members contribute a percentage of their gross salary for all their years of public service, but there are some exceptions:".......... "If a union-negotiated collective bargaining agreement in effect on January 9, 2010 requires an employer to offer a non-contributory plan, any new employees who join while that agreement is in place, and who elect the special plan, may not be required to contribute." |
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Post by 1090cop on Jan 14, 2014 17:26:21 GMT -5
This current class is all tier 6 unless they had prior time. The only thing that is different from the standard tier 6 is the county contributes instead of the individual police officers.
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Post by overthecap on Jan 14, 2014 18:27:32 GMT -5
Im just as upset as you guys but please correct me if Im wrong in 2 years Tier 2 runs out anyway and automatically switches to Tier 6. Im not 100% on this but someone with some knowledge please correct me or certify the statment. Correct. "Most Tier 6 members contribute a percentage of their gross salary for all their years of public service, but there are some exceptions:".......... "If a union-negotiated collective bargaining agreement in effect on January 9, 2010 requires an employer to offer a non-contributory plan, any new employees who join while that agreement is in place, and who elect the special plan, may not be required to contribute." Is that the same contract the County is challenging? They have some skin in the game I thinkss. |
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Post by smallville on Jan 14, 2014 22:01:44 GMT -5
Lawsuit is real. With all the arguments we have in our suit, if we loose that only means this isn't America anymore. The deal is a pacifier. That is what I'm done with. I'm at a point where I have accepted that this is it. I'm salaried at 79,000. I'm done with deals. I'm pretty much gonna vote no on any deal and ride this out till we win in 3 years. We are going to win. Fvck this county. I'm not giving them anything. Done being victimized. Jimmy should walk out of talks. He should tell them good luck hiring non contributory members who don't pay into healthcare. And when the contract expires we should drag out talks till 2019 the way they dragged out talks with us. Let them hire for years past the expiration date with no changes for new guys. They would crack and beg us to come back to table. fvck them. We are gonna win suit and we should give nothing to our enemies that have been pillaging our unions and this once great department for years. From what I'm guessing 500 cops are slated to retire in next few years. Burn baby burn. They will come to us begging to change hiring conditions for new members. Don't get me wrong I need the raises. My credit will be destroyed. However I won't loose my home or cars and I'll be able to feed my family and that's all that matters. Maybe I'm wrong. I don't know. Just my feelings at this time. You should run for delegate in your command, dude. |
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Post by unregistered5150 on Jan 15, 2014 8:33:44 GMT -5
Waiting sounds like a strong stand against the county and NIFA, however there are too many people that will be financially ruined. I agree we have been trying to hard to make a deal. We need to turn the screws on the county. Let them sweat a little. They will see that no one wants this job when they can't hire and see that the 27 or so guys that came out of the last class, start putting in papers to leave. And that is going to happen. I hope Mangano has someone telling him this. I know he has someone telling him everything.
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Post by k9packerspd on Jan 15, 2014 10:25:57 GMT -5
Like inthebusiness said, screw the deal. Screw all the givebacks NIFA wants. Take everything off the table and let the place burn. They want to hire...? GOOD, under NON-contributory terms. See how long it lasts. It's absurd to give ANYTHING back in the middle of a contract THEY broke. So if they want to play the game, fine...short roll call, late call, grab the OT and make them eat it. Like previously mentioned, over 500 cops slated to retire in the next couple of years. What do they do when that ACTUALLY happens? I'm not sure they even know what to do. Let the OT rack up, and do what you can to take care of your family.
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Post by ncpdfvcked on Jan 15, 2014 14:33:23 GMT -5
Im just as upset as you guys but please correct me if Im wrong in 2 years Tier 2 runs out anyway and automatically switches to Tier 6. Im not 100% on this but someone with some knowledge please correct me or certify the statment. Your 100% correct. First of all tier 2 only exists for past members who are currently on the job now. For future hires there is one exception, ex NYPD people who have tier 2 already that come on the county job. By the end of 2015 our contract expires and the non contributory Claus will have expired. Without a deal the county will hire Tier 6 people and pay the portion of the pension that they wouldn't have to pay. Probably millions over 25-30 years. So make no mistake about it, it is a decent bargaining tool. But if we wait till 2016 with no deal then the chip is gone. I believe less emotion and more level headed ness. Or we will be in a far worse place come 2016. |
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Post by mrwizard on Jan 15, 2014 15:27:31 GMT -5
I'll admit I'm a little out of the loop but unless the Law has changed drastically, the current contract and all of its clauses stay in effect even though it has expired. The Taylor Law keeps them in effect until a new contract is negotiated or imposed by PERB. Walking away from the table (you have nothing to gain by negotiating with these people anyway) will actually benefit the new hires and cost the County a bundle. Current Pension Plans, Medical Contributions and all other benefits must stay as is. The County can't screw with the new guys and offer them a separate contract either. The NCPD is an "Agency Shop". All Cops must belong to the PBA or at least pay dues. All Cops are covered by the contract with the PBA and receive benefits as stipulated in that contract. If you have a new law, correct me.
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Post by eltrabajogrande on Jan 15, 2014 15:30:55 GMT -5
Im just as upset as you guys but please correct me if Im wrong in 2 years Tier 2 runs out anyway and automatically switches to Tier 6. Im not 100% on this but someone with some knowledge please correct me or certify the statment. Your 100% correct. First of all tier 2 only exists for past members who are currently on the job now. For future hires there is one exception, ex NYPD people who have tier 2 already that come on the county job. By the end of 2015 our contract expires and the non contributory Claus will have expired. Without a deal the county will hire Tier 6 people and pay the portion of the pension that they wouldn't have to pay. Probably millions over 25-30 years. So make no mistake about it, it is a decent bargaining tool. But if we wait till 2016 with no deal then the chip is gone. I believe less emotion and more level headed ness. Or we will be in a far worse place come 2016. Thank you. I didn't know how exactly to explain it but you did a perfect job! So to reiterate we have to be wise. From what I understand and have heard the county is going to hire regardless. The savings from switching the Tiers now only help the county for only another 2 years then its Tier 6 and we loose that bargaining stance. Im with all you guys as I'm stuck in steps also just don't want to be reckless. Its not that Im soft. Just want to be smart and not cut our nose to spite our face. |
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Post by lost on Jan 15, 2014 15:46:59 GMT -5
The county is gonna pull the trigger and hire eventually, deal or no deal.
And we'll all sit back and watch, knowing "no one will take this job". That might be true for the current list, but when this list expires and they move to the new one, there will be a huge new crop of potential recruits, and many of them will be the 21 year old living at home, "I'll take it no matter what types". There are none of those left on this list.
And then the county will sit back as they have a work force of slaves at 34K, who will become increasingly restless and loud as every day passes that they are frozen at 34K. Someone in that spot will vote away anything, and I mean anything to get a raise. While they won't be a forceful voting bloc right away, if retirements are rampant, the hiring could be as well, and you don't want a sizable bloc of our workforce stuck at 34K.
So, in my opinion, we should be looking to get something done. But that something needs to be a comprehensive something that restores all steps/raises. I also feel the county executive needs some pressure put on him from somehwere. He literally has zero incentive to work towards balancing the budget and having nifa leave. And each year passes and it's "thanks ed mangano for not raising taxes" while county infrastructure crumbles and money is stolen from employees while the appointees, "friends of" , "connected law firms" and "donating contractors" are lining their pockets. It's very unfortunate there are no consequences for the county executive for not doing his job; the only consequence is the republican wet dream of union employees suffering.
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Post by lost on Jan 15, 2014 16:21:41 GMT -5
Also, while I'm on my little soapbox lol, we have to keep in our minds that the end of 2015 is right around the corner. And the county is gonna be full guns blazing to gut us completely. And we'll say no no no, and eventually it will all end up in arbitration. Arbitration is a complete wild card and we could come out ok or if the state of the county has not improved, come out shredded to pieces with a different looking job than it was the day before. Just something to keep in mind.
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zzzz
Full Member
Posts: 222
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Post by zzzz on Jan 15, 2014 16:28:42 GMT -5
Right, but what does it matter if an arbitrator treats us fairly and a new contract is favorable ( todays standards)  The county doesn't honor shvt. So in my opinion we are fvck'd either way. The ONLY leverage we will ever have is if by some miracle judge Diamond rules in our favor. I seriously doubt it though!!! Shvt show!! |
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Post by inthebusiness on Jan 15, 2014 16:48:36 GMT -5
Im just as upset as you guys but please correct me if Im wrong in 2 years Tier 2 runs out anyway and automatically switches to Tier 6. Im not 100% on this but someone with some knowledge please correct me or certify the statment. Your 100% correct. First of all tier 2 only exists for past members who are currently on the job now. For future hires there is one exception, ex NYPD people who have tier 2 already that come on the county job. By the end of 2015 our contract expires and the non contributory Claus will have expired. Without a deal the county will hire Tier 6 people and pay the portion of the pension that they wouldn't have to pay. Probably millions over 25-30 years. So make no mistake about it, it is a decent bargaining tool. But if we wait till 2016 with no deal then the chip is gone. I believe less emotion and more level headedness. Or we will be in a far worse place come 2016. Correct me if I'm wrong. The department can't hire. The new members are non contributory frozen. So you believe when the contract expires and they are contributory frozen the department will be able to hire? Lol. It's not going to expire. The chip gets stronger. The only motivation to a civilian taking the job is seeing light at the end of the tunnel. That even if they are tier 6 contributory at least they will make a good living at top pay. If the county wants to hire good people to do Gods work then they will have to recruit the best. |
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Post by pdcn63 on Jan 15, 2014 16:49:03 GMT -5
At least income tax time is here... for guys stuck in steps it is the savings account for the year
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The county doesn't honor shvt. So in my opinion we are fvck'd either way. The ONLY leverage we will ever have is if by some miracle judge Diamond rules in our favor. I seriously doubt it though!!! Shvt show!!