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Post by inthebusiness on Jan 15, 2014 16:53:42 GMT -5
Also, while i'm on my little soapbox lol, we have to keep in our minds that the end of 2015 is right around the corner. And the county is gonna be full guns blazing to gut us completely. And we'll say no no no, and eventually it will all end up in arbitration. Arbitration is a complete wild card and we could come out ok or if the state of the county has not improved, come out shredded to pieces with a different looking job than it was the day before. Just something to keep in mind. Why is everyone so worried about arbitrators? We can drag out and work with no contract for years effectively keeping in track all our healthcare and working conditions. As long as we show we are talking in good faith it doesn't forcefully go to arbitrator. If the county can drag out the talks in a deal for years so can we. Look at the city. 4 years now with no contract and look not in arbitrators lap either.
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Post by inthebusiness on Jan 15, 2014 16:54:10 GMT -5
I'll admit I'm a little out of the loop but unless the Law has changed drastically, the current contract and all of its clauses stay in effect even though it has expired. The Taylor Law keeps them in effect until a new contract is negotiated or imposed by PERB. Walking away from the table (you have nothing to gain by negotiating with these people anyway) will actually benefit the new hires and cost the County a bundle. Current Pension Plans, Medical Contributions and all other benefits must stay as is. The County can't screw with the new guys and offer them a separate contract either. The NCPD is an "Agency Shop". All Cops must belong to the PBA or at least pay dues. All Cops are covered by the contract with the PBA and receive benefits as stipulated in that contract. If you have a new law, correct me. Well said brother
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Post by eltrabajogrande on Jan 15, 2014 16:56:12 GMT -5
At least income tax time is here... for guys stuck in steps it is the savings account for the year Lol with ya 63
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Post by ftnyrs on Jan 15, 2014 17:05:52 GMT -5
The only thing I'd be interested in dragging out is NIFA board members from their homes, tar and feather them and then swing by Idiot Eds house to tell him "to keep it going Ed"
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Post by pdcn63 on Jan 15, 2014 17:20:00 GMT -5
I noticed marlin is still with nifa and actually commenting on nifa related problems as their seemingly official spokesman... I guess he is not officially out yet
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Post by crates on Jan 15, 2014 18:36:42 GMT -5
Your 100% correct. First of all tier 2 only exists for past members who are currently on the job now. For future hires there is one exception, ex NYPD people who have tier 2 already that come on the county job. By the end of 2015 our contract expires and the non contributory Claus will have expired. Without a deal the county will hire Tier 6 people and pay the portion of the pension that they wouldn't have to pay. Probably millions over 25-30 years. So make no mistake about it it is a decent bargaining tool. But if we wait till 2016 with no deal then the chip is gone. I believe less emotion and more level headed ness. Or we will be in a far worse place come 2016. Correct me if I'm wrong. The department can't hire. The new members are non contributory frozen. So you believe when the contract expires and they are contributory frozen the department will be able to hire? Lol. It's not going to expire. The chip gets stronger. The only motivation to a civilian taking the job is seeing light at the end of the tunnel. That even if they are tier 6 contributory at least they will make a good living at top pay. If the county wants to hire good people to do Gods work then they will have to recruit the best. Ask the new hires what pension their they are in. I think they are tier 2. They way the state law and our contract was written allows our newly hired to be teir 2. I don't know if the state will allow they county to hire till the new pension teir is in place for our new hires.
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Post by smallville on Jan 15, 2014 18:41:08 GMT -5
Like inthebusiness said, screw the deal. Screw all the givebacks NIFA wants. Take everything off the table and let the place burn. They want to hire...? GOOD, under NON-contributory terms. See how long it lasts. It's absurd to give ANYTHING back in the middle of a contract THEY broke. So if they want to play the game, fine...short roll call, late call, grab the OT and make them eat it. Like previously mentioned, over 500 cops slated to retire in the next couple of years. What do they do when that ACTUALLY happens? I'm not sure they even know what to do. Let the OT rack up, and do what you can to take care of your family. Wallflowers: Well this place is old....It feels just like a beat up truck I turn the engine, but the engine doesn't turn It smells of cheap wine 'n cigarettes, this place is always such a mess Sometimes I think I'd like to watch it burn. I'm feeling it.
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Post by lost on Jan 15, 2014 19:28:38 GMT -5
Correct me if I'm wrong. The department can't hire. The new members are non contributory frozen. So you believe when the contract expires and they are contributory frozen the department will be able to hire? Lol. It's not going to expire. The chip gets stronger. The only motivation to a civilian taking the job is seeing light at the end of the tunnel. That even if they are tier 6 contributory at least they will make a good living at top pay. If the county wants to hire good people to do Gods work then they will have to recruit the best. Ask the new hires what pension their they are in. I think they are tier 2. They way the state law and our contract was written allows our newly hired to be teir 2. I don't know if the state will allow they county to hire till the new pension teir is in place for our new hires. The new hires are Tier 6, non contributory. They follow all rules of Tier 6 except they do not contribute the percentage towrds the pension.
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Post by smallville on Jan 15, 2014 19:46:23 GMT -5
Ask the new hires what pension their they are in. I think they are tier 2. They way the state law and our contract was written allows our newly hired to be teir 2. I don't know if the state will allow they county to hire till the new pension teir is in place for our new hires. The new hires are Tier 6, non contributory. They follow all rules of Tier 6 except they do not contribute the percentage towrds the pension. AND....they don't pay into medical.
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Post by lost on Jan 15, 2014 20:26:23 GMT -5
The new hires are Tier 6, non contributory. They follow all rules of Tier 6 except they do not contribute the percentage towrds the pension. AND....they don't pay into medical. Yep; and they are "here" now; any deal that may be struck must include steps for them as well
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Post by crates on Jan 15, 2014 21:49:23 GMT -5
Ask the new hires what pension their they are in. I think they are tier 2. They way the state law and our contract was written allows our newly hired to be teir 2. I don't know if the state will allow they county to hire till the new pension teir is in place for our new hires. The new hires are Tier 6, non contributory. They follow all rules of Tier 6 except they do not contribute the percentage towrds the pension. Is that a fact or assumption? I have heard that was a legal unknown before they were hired. I was told by one of them, with no prior time, that they relieved a letter from the pension fund that they were a unique case and that they were tier 2. I haven't seen the letter my self but there seems to be a lot of assumptions going on and we don't seem to have all the information. This am be addressed at the open meeting because it has to do with what we can give up.
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Post by lost on Jan 15, 2014 22:23:29 GMT -5
The new hires are Tier 6, non contributory. They follow all rules of Tier 6 except they do not contribute the percentage towrds the pension. Is that a fact or assumption? I have heard that was a legal unknown before they were hired. I was told by one of them, with no prior time, that they relieved a letter from the pension fund that they were a unique case and that they were tier 2. I haven't seen the letter my self but there seems to be a lot of assumptions going on and we don't seem to have all the information. This am be addressed at the open meeting because it has to do with what we can give up. The guy I talked to while he was on field training told me he was Tier 6, non contributory. He said there was even a snafu when they got their 1st paycheck and money was taken out from it for pension purposes. He said that got rectified. Now if things have changed and letters were received then i could be wrong. I can only go off the information i have, which i figured was pretty good. /shrug
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Post by Deleted on Jan 15, 2014 22:43:52 GMT -5
YOUR EXACTLY RIGHT. MANGANO CAN CONTINUE TO GUT THE COUNTY AND THERE IS NOTHING THAT STOPS HIM. THE PBA MUST HAVE REASSURANCES FROM NIFA/CUOMO THAT WE WILL NOT GO THRU THIS AGAIN IN A FEW YEARS. AS OF NOW HE CONTINUES TO PISS MONEY AWAY.
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Post by k9packerspd on Jan 16, 2014 9:19:24 GMT -5
The new group that was just hired is Tier 6 with "NCPD Tier 2 benefits." So they do not contribute to pension, medical etc...but if they were to go to Suffolk/city or another NYS department they would have to follow straight Tier 6 guidelines or whatever that department did (i.e pay into pension etc...).
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Post by pdcn63 on Jan 16, 2014 22:23:06 GMT -5
so what did the big man have to say
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